I think Mr. Spencer affects Holden more than Ackley does because Ackley is just someone that Holden gets annoyed with sometimes, whereas Mr. Spencer is someone whose opinion matters to Holden. When Holden visits Mr. Spencer, he listens to him and even though he doesn't like being there, he acts respectully towards Mr. S, but when Ackley comes into Holden's room, Holden knows that the best way to act when Ackley is bothering him is too ignore him or call him "Ackley kid".
I believe that Ackley disturbs Holden more because holden spends more time with Ackley than with Mr.Spencer. Indeed, Holden tells of a wide variety of things that he does not like with Ackley; -mouldy teeth (crude) -picks up stuff and never puts it back where he took it. -picks his pimples in public while with Mr. Spencer, Holden knows only very superficial things, meaning he has less to be disturbed about.
I think Mr. Spencer AND Ackley disturb Holden. He critizes Mr. Spencer's "bumpy old chest" and the smell of "Vicks nose drops". It seems as if Holden is even more disturbed by Ackley because he never brushes his teeth, "they always looked mossy and awful, and he damn near made you sick". He also "had a lot of pimples", "and not only that, he had a terrible personality". Overall Holden is disturbed by Mr. Spencer and Ackley's physics. But I think Ackley disturbs Holden even more then Mr. Spencer.
I agree, both caracters are disturbing holden, may it be this old history teacher who reminds him about his "failures in four out of five subjects" or even this friendless slob guy who comes into his room to annoy him more than anything. But of the two meeting scenes, it is from mr.spencer's that Holden is more troubled, although ackley's attitude is so poor, he still "wish he [mr.spencer] hadn't said that"(about his history work)maybe because he respects mr.spencer more because he is an adult? alex
I agree with Mathilde: I think that Mr.Spencer disturbs Holden more than Ackley; Holden cares more about Mr.Spencer's thoughts about him, and respects him enough to visit him even though his room smells of "Vicks Nose drops". He feels somewhat betrayed, and that it's a "dirty trick" of Mr.Spencer to show him the "crap" essay he had written. But Holden only seems to feel typically annoyed about Ackley's interruption and "mossy and awful" teeth. Eloïse Turpin
I also agree with Mathilde and Eloïse since I think that Mr. Spencer disturbs Holden more than Ackley although he quite dislikes Ackley too because of his crude manners and his way of disturbing Holden for his pleasure. Holden knows how to annoy Ackley also by calling him "Ackley kid" andd being childish while he has to respect Mr. Spencer for he is his history teacher. In the beginning of their meeting, Holden doesn't seem to mind being with Mr. Spencer although he doesn't like the sight of his "bumpy old chest" or "white and unhairy" legs and the smell of "Vicks Nose Drops" whereas in the end he uses a hyperbole to show how annoyed he is being in his presence :"Boy, I couldn't've sat there another ten minutes to save my life."
I agree with Delphine, Eloïse and Mathilde. I believe Holden's history teacher disturbs Holden more than Ackley does. After living some time with Ackley as a "guy that roomed right next to {him}" , Holden is accostumed to Ackley's manners, "he always picked up your personal stuff and looked at it", which don't disturb him anymore; whereas going for about the first time in his history teacher's room and seeing him in a bathrobe quite affects him. He acts really serious and respectful when with "old Spencer".
Yes, I agree too! On one hand we have the minor disturbance of Ackley coming into Holden's room and picking on him. This, as Holden describes, is what he "always does". Such a confrontation is purely a habit to Holden; Ackley's remarks and actions therefore have not much effect on Holden : he turns "sarcastic", and starts "horsing around".
On the other hand, it is clear that Holden doesn't often go and visit his teachers, and the fact that he went all the way to see Mr Spencer indicates that he has quite a close relationship with him. By the end of their meeting, Mr Spencer is really getting to him, particularly once he gets onto the subject of Holden's future. Holden "just couldn't hang around there any longer".
I think Mr Spencer and Robert Ackley both affect Holden. With his wise speeches, Mr Spencer tries to make Holden more aware and thoughtful of his own future. Holden seems to know what Mr Spencer is telling him has a true meaning to it and that he is going down the wrong path, for Holden says: “Don’t worry about me […] I’m just going through a phase right now”. On the contrary, Ackley affects him less and in a negative way; “He started walking around the room, very slow and all, like he always did, picking up your personal stuff”. Ackley’s only goal is to irritate Holden. Mr Spencer influences Holden more by trying “to put some sense” into Holden. Amelia
I think that Mr Spender affects Holden because Ackley only bothers and annoys Holden were as Mr Spencer lectures him and gives his opinion to Holden. Which Holden listen to without actually being annoyed. For example, when Holden gets Mr Spencers note, Holden goes and see him when he could of stayed in his room.
I think that Holden is more disturbed by Mr Spencer than by Ackley. Ackley is also a boy therefore Holden can "take his revenge" when and if he wants to. While Mr. Spencer is fully grown man and he has to respect him and Holden already knows what Mr. Spencer is going to say. In his speech Mr. Spencer only annoys Holden and Holden is not interested by what he says. Therefore Holden is stuck in a hypocritical conversation with Mr. Spencer.
Each character disturbs Holden in a way, but I think Mr. Spencer "disturbs" Holden more. Ackley just isn't very nice, and annoys Holden, whereas Mr. Spencer, being an old man, is further away from him, and so Holden finds him more "disturbing". For example, he doesn't like Mr. Spencer's "Bumpy old chest" or even his "Pajamas and bathrobes". In the end he really tries to escape Mr. Spencer's house !
Eloi Massoulie
PS : Some people write on this blog at 5 in the morning ??!
Both characters are extremely annoying in their own way. Mr Spencer is psychologically annoying which is caused by the respect Holden owes him the way Mr Spencer shows his authority and superiority towards Holden which forces him being harmless and unable to contradict Mr Spencer when being annoyed. Ackley is like an annoying kid who gets on your nerves but not even knowing it. Although he may be physically superior, this has no match to Holden's intelligence and guts to tell him "SHUT UP!!!"
Mr. Spencer’s speeches have an impact on how Holden acts because he respects Mr. Spencer. In my opinion it seems that he respects Mr Spencer not because ‘he has to’, just like Theo said, but because Mr Spencer shows confidence in him. I believe that Holden tries to think about what Mr. Spencer is trying to communicate to him. Mr Spencer doesn’t ‘only annoy Holden’, like Melchior and Theo say. Holden is partly interested by what Mr Spencer says. Holden feels confused after every speech given by Mr. Spencer because he takes into account what Mr. Spencer says. Holden doesn’t feel only annoyed and bored by Mr Spencer but he is really interested in the speeches.
Holden is still a teenager. He is at an age when one is trying to find the path of his/her life and who he/she really is. Holden’s knowledge of what is right and what is wrong isn’t founded yet, so he tries to find the answer in Mr Spencer’s speeches. Because Mr Spencer is the only example and the only adult in whom he recognizes wise and true thoughts that he doesn’t completely understand yet, Holden is learning to trust him.
Holden is annoyed by Ackley he thinks Ackley is "pecular" he even gives him a hint to leave but Holden is himslf. Whilst with Mr Spencer Holden is more disturbed by his "bumpy old chest" and lectures. Holden says he hates "fake" people but when he is talking to Mr Spencer Holden is actually thinking about the ducks.He feels so auckward with Mr Spencer that Holden says he has to get his gym equipment to leave which is a complete lie. I believe Holden is disturbed by Mr Spencer and annoyed by Ackley.Both characters affect Holden.
I agree with Mathilde that Mr. Spencer effects Holden the most. And I agree with what amelia wrote: Mr. Spencer doesn't only annoy Holden because he is partly interested in what Mr. Spencer says.
I agree with Sky about Holden being more affected by Mr Spencer than by Ackley. But I don't think that Holden isn't annoyed at all by the conversation he is having with him. If he was so fond of Mr Spencer's lectures, he wouldn't have made up a story to leave Mr Spencer.
I think that holden is more disturbed by mr spencer
Holden is disgusted by mr Spencer's "bumpy old chest" and his smell of "Vicks nose drops". He is annoyed by mr spencer's lectures and mr spencer's authority over him. Holden is disgusted by ackley's horrible messed up teeth . Holdan is annoyed by Holdan's lack of intelligence and and his feeling of authority over him . Although holden is extremely annoyed by both of the characters I think he is more disturbed by mr spencer because during his visit at mr spencer's house Holdan "just couldn't hang around any longer". When ackley was in holdan's room holdan was annoyed by him but he could still handle ackley's presence.
I disagree with Pacome because I do not think that Ackley affects Holden more than Mr Spencer. We cannot conclude that Ackley disturbs Holden more because he sees him more often, because the irritating words of Ackley do not get to him. He learned how to ignore him. Second, Mr Spencer isn't a common teacher whom he sees only during class, for Holden visits Mr Spencer when he could have gone to some other place.
I agree with alexis that holden is annoyed by mr spencer because he reminds him about his "failures in four out of five subjects but I don't think that's why Holdan is disturbed by mr Spencer. I think Holdan is disturbed by mr Spencer because he finds him disgusting and repulsive. Holdan finds Mr spencer disgusting because he is disgusted by old people and he doesn't want to end up like them. I think this is why Holdan is more disturbed by Mr spencer than by Ackley
I think Holden is more disturbed by Spencer : “the way he kept missing the bed whenever he chucked something at it, and his sad old bathrobe with his chest showing”, “the smell of Vicks nose drops”, the man’s oldness. His teacher cares about Holden when he says, “I’m trying to help you, if I can”. He tries to help, but Holden thinks he’s hopeless because he is not concerned about his future and he is not a good student. On the other hand, Ackley is uncaring and unconcerned about Holden. So Holden is just annoyed by Ackley but he’s more affected by Spencer.
I agree with Judith when she says that Holden can stand Ackley’s presence, but has to leave Mr Spencer’s house. This clearly shows that Holden is more affected by Mr Spencer: by the smell of the nose drops, chest, etc., but also by what he says.
I disagree with Pacome. Holden also criticizes Spencer quite a lot: bad habits(throwing objects on the bed but missing), his appearance, his lecture… I don’t think Holden is too affected by Ackley’s teeth or pimples though it’s disgusting, nor about his conversation with Ackley though he is by Spencer’s deeper speech.
I agree with Mathilde and the others who agreed to what she wrote. Ackley annoys Holden very often and it’s almost like a routine to be bothered by him, whereas Holden’s visit at Spencers, is more meaningful, therefore more affecting. Holden shows more respect towards Spencer too.
I agree with the recent post of Alexis, we do indeed ressemble the triple alliance and triple alliance in 1914, building lists of "friends" and "enemies" and "not classified yet"
I would also like to answer Eloi's question: -no, the timer is completely out of order and I'd like to re-ask my question, are we allowed to post jokes?
I would say that Holdon is more affected by Mr.Spencer than by Ackley, because Holdon cares about what Mr.Spencer says, whereas Ackley is just an annoying boy that gets on Holdon's nerves. For example, Ackley wouldn't affect Holdon as much as an adult, because teenagers insult themselves much more often than adults: Holdon isn't affected by what Ackley says because he doesn't care about what Ackley says or does. When Mr.Spencer talks to him about his grades, Holdon listens because he knows that what Mr.Spencer will say will be more truthfull than a common discussion between teenagers. When Mr.Spencer tells him things that Holdon doesn't want to hear, he still listens because he cares about what Mr.Spence will say about him, and as what he says about him is negative, he is disturbed of what Mr.Spencer says.
Sorry I'm late. I tottaly agree with Julie in the that they both annoy Holden.But Alexis fact that mr.Spencer reminds him of failure at school is not so true because Holden doesn'ttalks to his teachers.Mr Spenceris more as a "dad" to him. As for Ackley kid he's just one little annoying room mates.Changing of school a lot Holden must have had others
I think Mr. Spencer affects Holden more than Ackley does because Ackley is just someone that Holden gets annoyed with sometimes, whereas Mr. Spencer is someone whose opinion matters to Holden. When Holden visits Mr. Spencer, he listens to him and even though he doesn't like being there, he acts respectully towards Mr. S, but when Ackley comes into Holden's room, Holden knows that the best way to act when Ackley is bothering him is too ignore him or call him "Ackley kid".
ReplyDeleteMathilde
I believe that Ackley disturbs Holden more because holden spends more time with Ackley than with Mr.Spencer. Indeed, Holden tells of a wide variety of things that he does not like with Ackley;
ReplyDelete-mouldy teeth (crude)
-picks up stuff and never puts it back where he took it.
-picks his pimples in public
while with Mr. Spencer, Holden knows only very superficial things, meaning he has less to be disturbed about.
Pacôme
just a question, can we post jokes
ReplyDelete-with our answers?
-at randomn?
pacome
I think Mr. Spencer AND Ackley disturb Holden.
ReplyDeleteHe critizes Mr. Spencer's "bumpy old chest" and the smell of "Vicks nose drops". It seems as if Holden is even more disturbed by Ackley because he never brushes his teeth, "they always looked mossy and awful, and he damn near made you sick". He also "had a lot of pimples", "and not only that, he had a terrible personality". Overall Holden is disturbed by Mr. Spencer and Ackley's physics. But I think Ackley disturbs Holden even more then Mr. Spencer.
I agree, both caracters are disturbing holden, may it be this old history teacher who reminds him about his "failures in four out of five subjects" or even this friendless slob guy who comes into his room to annoy him more than anything. But of the two meeting scenes, it is from mr.spencer's that Holden is more troubled, although ackley's attitude is so poor, he still "wish he [mr.spencer] hadn't said that"(about his history work)maybe because he respects mr.spencer more because he is an adult?
ReplyDeletealex
I agree with Mathilde: I think that Mr.Spencer disturbs Holden more than Ackley; Holden cares more about Mr.Spencer's thoughts about him, and respects him enough to visit him even though his room smells of "Vicks Nose drops". He feels somewhat betrayed, and that it's a "dirty trick" of Mr.Spencer to show him the "crap" essay he had written. But Holden only seems to feel typically annoyed about Ackley's interruption and "mossy and awful" teeth.
ReplyDeleteEloïse Turpin
I also agree with Mathilde and Eloïse since I think that Mr. Spencer disturbs Holden more than Ackley although he quite dislikes Ackley too because of his crude manners and his way of disturbing Holden for his pleasure. Holden knows how to annoy Ackley also by calling him "Ackley kid" andd being childish while he has to respect Mr. Spencer for he is his history teacher. In the beginning of their meeting, Holden doesn't seem to mind being with Mr. Spencer although he doesn't like the sight of his "bumpy old chest" or "white and unhairy" legs and the smell of "Vicks Nose Drops" whereas in the end he uses a hyperbole to show how annoyed he is being in his presence :"Boy, I couldn't've sat there another ten minutes to save my life."
ReplyDeleteDelphine
I agree with Delphine, Eloïse and Mathilde. I believe Holden's history teacher disturbs Holden more than Ackley does. After living some time with Ackley as a "guy that roomed right next to {him}" , Holden is accostumed to Ackley's manners, "he always picked up your personal stuff and looked at it", which don't disturb him anymore; whereas going for about the first time in his history teacher's room and seeing him in a bathrobe quite affects him. He acts really serious and respectful when with "old Spencer".
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree too! On one hand we have the minor disturbance of Ackley coming into Holden's room and picking on him. This, as Holden describes, is what he "always does". Such a confrontation is purely a habit to Holden; Ackley's remarks and actions therefore have not much effect on Holden : he turns "sarcastic", and starts "horsing around".
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, it is clear that Holden doesn't often go and visit his teachers, and the fact that he went all the way to see Mr Spencer indicates that he has quite a close relationship with him. By the end of their meeting, Mr Spencer is really getting to him, particularly once he gets onto the subject of Holden's future. Holden "just couldn't hang around there any longer".
I think Mr Spencer and Robert Ackley both affect Holden. With his wise speeches, Mr Spencer tries to make Holden more aware and thoughtful of his own future. Holden seems to know what Mr Spencer is telling him has a true meaning to it and that he is going down the wrong path, for Holden says: “Don’t worry about me […] I’m just going through a phase right now”. On the contrary, Ackley affects him less and in a negative way; “He started walking around the room, very slow and all, like he always did, picking up your personal stuff”. Ackley’s only goal is to irritate Holden. Mr Spencer influences Holden more by trying “to put some sense” into Holden.
ReplyDeleteAmelia
I think that Mr Spender affects Holden because Ackley only bothers and annoys Holden were as Mr Spencer lectures him and gives his opinion to Holden. Which Holden listen to without actually being annoyed. For example, when Holden gets Mr Spencers note, Holden goes and see him when he could of stayed in his room.
ReplyDeleteSky
I think that Holden is more disturbed by Mr Spencer than by Ackley. Ackley is also a boy therefore Holden can "take his revenge" when and if he wants to. While Mr. Spencer is fully grown man and he has to respect him and Holden already knows what Mr. Spencer is going to say. In his speech Mr. Spencer only annoys Holden and Holden is not interested by what he says. Therefore Holden is stuck in a hypocritical conversation with Mr. Spencer.
ReplyDeleteTheo Grimond
Each character disturbs Holden in a way, but I think Mr. Spencer "disturbs" Holden more. Ackley just isn't very nice, and annoys Holden, whereas Mr. Spencer, being an old man, is further away from him, and so Holden finds him more "disturbing". For example, he doesn't like Mr. Spencer's "Bumpy old chest" or even his "Pajamas and bathrobes". In the end he really tries to escape Mr. Spencer's house !
ReplyDeleteEloi Massoulie
PS : Some people write on this blog at 5 in the morning ??!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBoth characters are extremely annoying in their own way. Mr Spencer is psychologically annoying which is caused by the respect Holden owes him the way Mr Spencer shows his authority and superiority towards Holden which forces him being harmless and unable to contradict Mr Spencer when being annoyed. Ackley is like an annoying kid who gets on your nerves but not even knowing it. Although he may be physically superior, this has no match to Holden's intelligence and guts to tell him "SHUT UP!!!"
ReplyDeleteMr. Spencer’s speeches have an impact on how Holden acts because he respects Mr. Spencer. In my opinion it seems that he respects Mr Spencer not because ‘he has to’, just like Theo said, but because Mr Spencer shows confidence in him. I believe that Holden tries to think about what Mr. Spencer is trying to communicate to him. Mr Spencer doesn’t ‘only annoy Holden’, like Melchior and Theo say. Holden is partly interested by what Mr Spencer says. Holden feels confused after every speech given by Mr. Spencer because he takes into account what Mr. Spencer says. Holden doesn’t feel only annoyed and bored by Mr Spencer but he is really interested in the speeches.
ReplyDeleteHolden is still a teenager. He is at an age when one is trying to find the path of his/her life and who he/she really is. Holden’s knowledge of what is right and what is wrong isn’t founded yet, so he tries to find the answer in Mr Spencer’s speeches. Because Mr Spencer is the only example and the only adult in whom he recognizes wise and true thoughts that he doesn’t completely understand yet, Holden is learning to trust him.
Holden is annoyed by Ackley he thinks Ackley is "pecular" he even gives him a hint to leave but Holden is himslf. Whilst with Mr Spencer Holden is more disturbed by his "bumpy old chest" and lectures. Holden says he hates "fake" people but when he is talking to Mr Spencer Holden is actually thinking about the ducks.He feels so auckward with Mr Spencer that Holden says he has to get his gym equipment to leave which is a complete lie. I believe Holden is disturbed by Mr Spencer and annoyed by Ackley.Both characters affect Holden.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mathilde that Mr. Spencer effects Holden the most.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree with what amelia wrote: Mr. Spencer doesn't only annoy Holden because he is partly interested in what Mr. Spencer says.
I agree with Sky about Holden being more affected by Mr Spencer than by Ackley. But I don't think that Holden isn't annoyed at all by the conversation he is having with him. If he was so fond of Mr Spencer's lectures, he wouldn't have made up a story to leave Mr Spencer.
ReplyDeleteI think that holden is more disturbed by mr spencer
ReplyDeleteHolden is disgusted by mr Spencer's "bumpy old chest" and his smell of "Vicks nose drops". He is annoyed by mr spencer's lectures and mr spencer's authority over him. Holden is disgusted by ackley's horrible messed up teeth . Holdan is annoyed by Holdan's lack of intelligence and and his feeling of authority over him . Although holden is extremely annoyed by both of the characters I think he is more disturbed by mr spencer because during his visit at mr spencer's house Holdan "just couldn't hang around any longer". When ackley was in holdan's room holdan was annoyed by him but he could still handle ackley's presence.
I disagree with Pacome because I do not think that Ackley affects Holden more than Mr Spencer. We cannot conclude that Ackley disturbs Holden more because he sees him more often, because the irritating words of Ackley do not get to him. He learned how to ignore him. Second, Mr Spencer isn't a common teacher whom he sees only during class, for Holden visits Mr Spencer when he could have gone to some other place.
ReplyDeleteI agree with alexis that holden is annoyed by mr spencer because he reminds him about his "failures in four out of five subjects but I don't think that's why Holdan is disturbed by mr Spencer. I think Holdan is disturbed by mr Spencer because he finds him disgusting and repulsive. Holdan finds Mr spencer disgusting because he is disgusted by old people and he doesn't want to end up like them. I think this is why Holdan is more disturbed by Mr spencer than by Ackley
ReplyDeleteI think Holden is more disturbed by Spencer : “the way he kept missing the bed whenever he chucked something at it, and his sad old bathrobe with his chest showing”, “the smell of Vicks nose drops”, the man’s oldness. His teacher cares about Holden when he says, “I’m trying to help you, if I can”. He tries to help, but Holden thinks he’s hopeless because he is not concerned about his future and he is not a good student. On the other hand, Ackley is uncaring and unconcerned about Holden. So Holden is just annoyed by Ackley but he’s more affected by Spencer.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Judith when she says that Holden can stand Ackley’s presence, but has to leave Mr Spencer’s house. This clearly shows that Holden is more affected by Mr Spencer: by the smell of the nose drops, chest, etc., but also by what he says.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Pacome. Holden also criticizes Spencer quite a lot: bad habits(throwing objects on the bed but missing), his appearance, his lecture… I don’t think Holden is too affected by Ackley’s teeth or pimples though it’s disgusting, nor about his conversation with Ackley though he is by Spencer’s deeper speech.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Mathilde and the others who agreed to what she wrote. Ackley annoys Holden very often and it’s almost like a routine to be bothered by him, whereas Holden’s visit at Spencers, is more meaningful, therefore more affecting. Holden shows more respect towards Spencer too.
ReplyDeletei think we all agree on the fact that we're all agreeing on the comments of each other !
ReplyDeleteI agree with the recent post of Alexis, we do indeed ressemble the triple alliance and triple alliance in 1914, building lists of "friends" and "enemies" and "not classified yet"
ReplyDeletePacome
I would also like to answer Eloi's question:
ReplyDelete-no, the timer is completely out of order
and I'd like to re-ask my question, are we allowed to post jokes?
pacome again, again and again
I would say that Holdon is more affected by Mr.Spencer than by Ackley, because Holdon cares about what Mr.Spencer says, whereas Ackley is just an annoying boy that gets on Holdon's nerves. For example, Ackley wouldn't affect Holdon as much as an adult, because teenagers insult themselves much more often than adults: Holdon isn't affected by what Ackley says because he doesn't care about what Ackley says or does.
ReplyDeleteWhen Mr.Spencer talks to him about his grades, Holdon listens because he knows that what Mr.Spencer will say will be more truthfull than a common discussion between teenagers. When Mr.Spencer tells him things that Holdon doesn't want to hear, he still listens because he cares about what Mr.Spence will say about him, and as what he says about him is negative, he is disturbed of what Mr.Spencer says.
Sorry I'm late. I tottaly agree with Julie in the that they both annoy Holden.But Alexis fact that mr.Spencer reminds him of failure at school is not so true because Holden doesn'ttalks to his teachers.Mr Spenceris more as a "dad" to him. As for Ackley kid he's just one little annoying room mates.Changing of school a lot Holden must have had others
ReplyDeleteGREAT responses everyone! And yes, I suppose you can post jokes (especially if they're related to the novel), as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
ReplyDelete-Ms. H